Over Forty Wellness Podcast
Over Forty Wellness Podcast
"Active Ageing Advocate" with Winnie Sung
What if the second half of your life could be the best part? While society pushes a narrative that success must happen in youth, transformational coach Winnie Sung discovered exactly the opposite: midlife is when things truly begin to open up.
In this deeply insightful conversation, Winnie shares her remarkable journey from Hong Kong-raised lawyer to global corporate executive to purpose-driven coach. Her story illuminates how career transitions can lead to profound personal growth when guided by a clear sense of purpose. After discovering her "why" – enabling people to become better versions of themselves – Winnie now helps midlife professionals create vibrant, fulfilling lives through her active aging business.
Winnie's approach centers on three powerful pillars: cross-generational learning, independent living, and holistic well-being. Through transformation coaching, she guides clients to find their purpose, build mental resilience, and navigate career changes with confidence. Her work powerfully challenges the concept of "midlife crisis," reframing it instead as a "midlife calling" – an opportunity to align your life with deeper meaning.
The conversation takes a fascinating turn when Winnie shares a client success story. A divorced woman in her 40s who felt "out of time" discovered her purpose through coaching, pivoted her career, and found renewed excitement about her future. This transformation began with challenging negative aging narratives and recognizing the unique wisdom and capabilities that come with life experience.
For listeners contemplating their own midlife transitions, Winnie offers actionable wisdom: become aware of your relationship with aging, challenge the "I'm too old for that" mindset, stay curious, and develop a growth mindset. Her parting question – "What if I'm not growing old, but growing whole?" – invites us all to reimagine aging as a journey of expansion rather than limitation.
Ready to transform your perspective on midlife and beyond? This episode provides the inspiration and practical guidance to help you make your second half truly your best half.
Contact Winnie
https://www.linkedin.com/in/dr-winnie-sung/
https://www.instagram.com/midlife_groove
Contact Vincent
Pro Coach: https://procoach.app/vincent-hiscox
Email: vincent.hiscox@outlook.com
LinkedIn: Vincent Hiscox
I really want to emphasize that the second half of our lives should be the best part of our lives. There's almost this kind of youth obsession in our society. The predominant view seems to be that if you don't make it while you're young and have all your successes, then somehow you know everything is just downhill, and I feel that my own midlife realization was the exact opposite. Was that, wow, no, now things are really starting to open up and I have so much more, so many things that I could still do with my life. So I really want to emphasise that the second half of life should be the best part of our lives.
Vincent Hiscox:Hi, I'm Vincent Hiscox, a health coach, podcaster and storyteller. Welcome to the Over 40 Wellness Podcast. We all have the ability to look better and feel better. Becoming healthy should not be complicated. On this podcast, I talk to health and wellness professionals who share their stories and their expertise so that you can optimize your health. The conversations will inspire and empower you with simple tips that you can put into practice to transform the way you feel, look better and feel better with the Over 40 Wellness Podcast.
Vincent Hiscox:My guest on the podcast this week is Winnie Sung, a transformational coach dedicated to supporting midlife professionals to create a sustainable, vibrant and fulfilling life. In the podcast, winnie shares her career transitions from lawyer to corporate real estate management, to general management, to launching her active ageing business. She has a 20 plus year record of successfully advising, mentoring and coaching students and professionals globally on a range of life and work issues. Winnie now walks the talk and lives her why every day, taking consistent action towards a life vision. In the podcast, winnie shares her why to enable people to become better versions of themselves every day, so that we can have the courage to make the world a better place for all. Winnie also shares a client story in the podcast. Her client had various traumas growing up. She had previously undertaken therapy and was struggling to find meaning in life, asking questions like why am I even here, struggling with work, unhappy, asking the question is this? It Divorced in the 40s. Am I running out of time? Is it too late to find something fulfilling? She undertook coaching and with Winnie she discovered her. Why she pivoted and started to look for a new job fulfilling her. Why she found a more strategic job and was able to move forward. Finding a why gave her a compass to successfully navigate her future.
Vincent Hiscox:Winnie believes we should be curious about how we view ageing. Society is usually negative. Look for evidence of the positive aspects of ageing. Focus on the positive. The second half of our lives should be the best part of our lives. There are so many things we could do. Stay open and curious. Develop a growth mindset. You can learn and you can grow from it. Challenge the narrative I'm too old for that. Don't let that become the excuse. Remain open to the possibility. Find a way. Good morning Winnie. How are you today?
Winnie Sung:Very good Vincent. How are you?
Vincent Hiscox:Yeah, I'm really good. I'm really pleased to have you on the podcast. I'm sure we're going to have lots and lots of nice things to talk about, and I understand that you grew up in Hong Kong. Maybe you could summarize for the listeners from your growing up in Hong Kong how you arrived to today such a long-winded story, but a lot has happened to get me to where I am today.
Winnie Sung:So, yes, I was born in Hong Kong and I grew up in Hong Kong until I was 10, when my family immigrated to Canada. So then basically I was living in Vancouver, going to school, growing up. But even though I went to Canada, I have to say like I sort of grew up in this kind of, I say, Hong Kong style, which is more like I was indoors, more, Because I think sometimes people think, oh, you grew up in Canada so you must be like outside all the time, all these kinds of things. But it wasn't like that, it was really more like Hong Kong living. So we were like indoors, so like as an example, like I would never, ever step outside, like step onto the grass barefoot, for example, I'd always be wearing shoes, things like that. So, even though I then grew up in Canada, like I still lived this very kind of Hong Kong lifestyle I always call it Other than that. I mean, actually I considered myself an active kid, Like I played volleyball and I enjoyed like doing dancing and singing and all of that, but doing all that indoors. So yeah, basically I grew up and fast forward. I eventually became a lawyer in Canada. That involved also indoors sitting in the office for long hours, other than when I used to have the court days where I have to go for trials and things like this, and then I would have to drag large boxes of files right down to the courthouse. So that was sort of the extent of my physical activity once I started my career. So that to me was also the phase where I started being less active.
Winnie Sung:I think that kind of was the next six, seven years of my life until in 2010,. Years of my life until in 2010, my personal life really moved me to Frankfurt, Germany. So then I moved to Germany to be with my now husband. This actually was my first career shift when I decided that, hmm, what else can I do besides law? So I decided to explore and then I ended up joining a Fortune 500 company to manage corporate real estate. So I used to do corporate real estate law as well. So that's why it kind of fit. But there were like a lot of new aspects of corporate real estate that I'd never had to deal with before which I found so fascinating, and I love that kind of learning and I love that kind of learning and it really plunged me into the world of production sites and workspace strategies and all of that kind of thing. So that was really exciting.
Winnie Sung:And that led then to 2014, where my company then actually sent me now back to Hong Kong to manage the APEC real estate and facility management department and in this job basically well, even starting in Germany, really this job really started getting me traveling a lot. So then this really kind of unshackled me from my desk and so I found myself just traveling all over the world for work purposes and then really discovering, really, that I love traveling around the world. And so then between the work travel and the leisure traveling, I just found myself being like very active and realizing that, yeah, I don't want a desk job anymore, to just sit behind the desk all day and like really like long, long hours. And in Hong Kong, when I was leading my APEC team, this is actually when I also found my why, which is kind of, like you know, my life purpose in that sense, which you know in a sentence, is to enable people to become better versions of themselves every day, so that we can find the courage to make the world a better place for all.
Winnie Sung:And that actually, through my team, was something that, because I was, I used to be such a sort of almost like individual performer, you know, executing projects, drafting that contract, doing that site, due diligence, all of that kind of thing. But leading my team really made me realize the power of that ripple effect. When you actually help others become better and enable them to do more, they can spread that out to the people they're leading and that ripple effect is so, so much more than what I can independently achieve on my own. So that was like such a crazy moment for me because when I realized that, then I also feel like you know what? Like that's what I want to do, Right, and that's how it sort of led me to find my why.
Vincent Hiscox:Yeah, I'm going to interrupt you because there were so many things to unpack in that and if I summarize from that and you can tell me whether I'm correct or not, whilst you were in Canada, you were more an indoor person, more an indoor yeah, your pursuits were more indoor pursuits, definitely, whereas then when you left Canada and you went traveling and you went to Germany, there was some magical transition in that time.
Winnie Sung:Would that be fair? Yeah, and actually, partly because I was such an indoor person, it feels like, other than some outside activities, the other thing in the personal side. So, other than the traveling for work which kind of just got me on the road, it was also like my husband really enjoyed taking walks outside and I remember really disliking it at first and going, do we really have to go for a walk? But what I did enjoy were the conversations that we were having during those walks. So I didn't enjoy the physical walking at first but I enjoyed the talks and so then that actually started developing, my it slowly developed. We always say like I used to be like, oh, do we really have to go to be like, okay, are we going to go walk now? So that actually also happened in Germany.
Winnie Sung:That transition of getting me outside, yeah, definitely. But then I think that that was more like maybe I actually do enjoy. I just never really had exposure to it Because from Hong Kong it was indoors. Get to Canada, we continue living indoors. And I didn't really, even though all my friends were very outdoors. They go camping, all that kind of stuff. I didn't do any of that.
Vincent Hiscox:Yeah.
Winnie Sung:Yeah, but in Germany I started going outside.
Vincent Hiscox:Yeah, I mean it's really interesting and I mean, if I reflect that back to myself, I mean it's most probably the polar opposite. I mean, to get me inside the house was impossible. But you know, back to you and that sort of okay, you had this let's say it's in your character when you were living in Canada to be sort of more the inside person. Then it, you know, when you came to Germany and there was some change of jobs in the middle of that as well, moving into corporate real estate, lots more traveling how did that feel for you? I mean, you were sort of evolving, going through that process. How did it feel for you?
Winnie Sung:It felt exciting because I wanted to explore those opportunities. So moving abroad, from Canada, for example and I didn't speak German at the time, right, it felt like a big opportunity to me. There were a lot of people around me who were sort of like you're taking such a big risk and you're sacrificing so much by moving across continents and all this. And I always remember being very puzzled by that reaction from people, because the vast majority of people were like whoa, like you know, I wouldn't do that if I were you. And what a sacrifice. And I was like what sacrifice.
Winnie Sung:It is so exciting to me that I get to explore a different continent. I knew I wanted to learn German as well, so then I was like it's such a great opportunity, right. And so at that point in my life I found it very exciting and I actually thought that Vancouver was, even though it was such a nice city and afforded like a really nice living. I don't want to say I was bored, but I was looking for somehow some excitement and I felt like moving to Germany gave me that.
Vincent Hiscox:Yeah, the two words that I picked out from what you said. They were adventurous and exciting. If I summarize the whole thing again, basically when you were in Canada, okay, going outside wasn't so exciting for you, you weren't so adventurous, but then through your jobs actually, your jobs took you to places that sort of brought those elements out in you, I mean your jobs and your activities while you were in those jobs. And how does that bring us up to today?
Winnie Sung:So basically that led to. So I ended up back in Hong Kong right in the APEC job and then the company sent me to China, where then I was basically heading up this project locally. But then that stopped all the traveling. I took it because I thought that that was the right kind of career progression for me, but I think over time and then of course COVID happened, so then we're really literally like on lockdown. So then we really weren't going anywhere sort of made me start to think what am I doing here? Is this really how I want to live my life? Am I really making the kind of impact that I wanted to live?
Winnie Sung:Because I mentioned to you earlier that I actually found my why while I was leading the APEC team, so that that period in China actually made me start reflecting and because I was sort of stuck in that place, it's sort of making me think, oh, no, more traveling. And then now I'm doing this one thing, and is it really creating the kind of impact that I wanted? And the answer was no, and so then I go okay, well, if that's the case, then how much longer am I going to spend here? And in that sense at that time, because then you started getting down this almost like negative path of the well, then, I'm just wasting my time here, aren't I Kind of thing. And then, yeah, that made me go. Yeah, no, I don't think I want to be here anymore.
Winnie Sung:So then it was then well, what do I want to do? So then, because of my why, I started thinking about, well, what is it that I could do that could fulfill my why? And then the whole idea of starting my own business kind of came into the picture. And so this is basically what led me to today, which so I quit my job, I came back to Hong Kong, and then I started exploring, right, what kind of a business would I start? How would I go about doing that? And then, yeah, it led me to create now my active, aging business, to which I continue to build today.
Vincent Hiscox:Great, great, and I mean the key words that I pull out from what you were saying there were finding your, why this was something it sounds like it was something that was very important for you, and a part of that finding your why was that you wanted to make an impact. Yes, so you had all these super jobs in the past and they sound like super jobs, and a part of that finding your why was that you wanted to make an impact. Yes, so you had all these super jobs in the past and they sound like super jobs, but still hidden behind that for you, there was something that was saying this is not really the sort of thing that I want to do forever. My why is a little bit different to that and I want to make this kind of impact.
Winnie Sung:And, would you say safely, that kind of brings us up to today? Yes, for sure, because the feeling I always ended up with after each achievement, so to speak, or career milestone, was still a little bit this. It's not emptiness, but it was always a little bit like, yeah, but what's next? It never gave me the sense of oh, now I've made it or now I'm really doing what I feel like I can do. Now, forever it was always like, yeah, you're sort of left with the yeah, what's next? What is there still? And so then it felt like something is still missing, something is still missing. So then it felt like something is still missing, something is still missing. So then it was just this continuous quest.
Winnie Sung:And that's how, like I said in APEC when I was leading the team, like when I actually finally said this is when I also came across that Simon Sinek, start with why concept where I sort of go oh, you know, this makes a lot of sense.
Winnie Sung:Let me try to find what that is. Because if I always felt like, yeah, I don't know, I never had this grand plan for how my life was going to be, like I didn't have my whole career planned out, I just kind of always knew in me somehow that, yeah, this is probably not it. There's probably going to be something else after, there's probably going to be something else after. But I couldn't tell you what that was, and so I thought, oh, if I found my why, maybe that can help to inform and guide what that next step would be. And when I found it, then I was really like, oh yes, like this really gives me a good compass in which to then help me navigate the decisions that I then take for the next step, for the next step, so yeah, yeah, the other thing that I get from what you're saying and you can correct me if it's not a good analysis is you were always successful in everything that you did.
Vincent Hiscox:It wasn't that you were changing and trying to find something else because you had got to a dead end. There was an evolution in all the jobs that you were doing and by many ways of measuring it was big improvements that were coming. But fundamentally for you it didn't satisfy you and you know reading the Simon Sinek book and we'll put a reference to that into the show notes this was a turning point for you. Is that a fair way to put it?
Winnie Sung:For sure.
Vincent Hiscox:Yeah.
Winnie Sung:Yeah. So, and I mean, it's of course, not without struggle, right, there were always challenges, but, yes, like I always felt like I sort of rose to the occasion and I sort of grew with right, every challenge that kind of was thrown my way and I basically, yeah, succeeded in that sense, despite whatever challenges came my way, but it wasn't like it was effortless in that sense. I think some people feel like, oh then, but actually my struggle then came in the feeling like, huh, is it not right for me to still feel like this is not enough, or that this is somehow like to even think that there's something more? Isn't there is almost kind of like really right, like shouldn't I just be happy with already all of this that I already have? Like that actually was a bit my own struggle going. Oh, like you know, because from the outside everybody sort of got well, what else have you got to complain about? Right, and I almost at some point started to go, well, yeah, maybe this is actually already really good, so I shouldn't think that there needs to be more. But there was something inside me that was just like no, like no, this is not it.
Winnie Sung:And then all of that kind of personal growth stuff I've actually always been interested in ever since as a teenager, right Started with Oprah. So in Canada I was always watching Oprah and then that kind of personal growth topics and psychology and how people thought and behaved that always interested me. So I think that part of like that self-reflection right of what fulfilled me, what satisfied me, that was always a question in mind. I don't think I really had an answer earlier on in my life when I was younger. But then you know, as I went through life, like it didn't hit me, like some people say, like oh, one day it just like a light bulb went on For me. It was like this kind of slow brew and then it sort of eventually kind of like appeared and yes, like that, finding my why was a very kind of like point in time when I really made an effort to intentionally look for it. But it was definitely this evolution.
Vincent Hiscox:Evolution, not revolution.
Winnie Sung:Not for me, yeah.
Vincent Hiscox:Yeah, super. So would that bring us up to where we are today?
Winnie Sung:Definitely.
Vincent Hiscox:Great and you know. Thanks so much for sharing it. And I'm sat across the table from you and I can see your enthusiasm. I can see, at the same time, your enthusiasm, I can see all the hurdles, and you overcame some hurdles which most people wouldn't even think of as being hurdles. But you know, I can see that for you those are things that you felt I need to move on. Now I've achieved something which is super in what I'm doing. Move on now. I've achieved something which is super in what I'm doing.
Vincent Hiscox:I'm quite capable of doing what I'm doing, but it's not enough. You almost sort of put the hurdles in front of yourself and wanted to get over them. And I think from a personal point of view, from my own point of view, I can see some of those things in myself as well. You know, from being a teacher, then moving into a microelectronics company as an engineer and then, even as an engineer, thinking it might be nice to do project management and then, from project management, maybe it'd be nice to do marketing, and always never from a position of being well, I can't do what I'm doing now, so I need to try something else. But it's well, I'm doing what I'm doing, and it's not really exactly everything that I want.
Vincent Hiscox:So let's find out what's next. Yes, yeah, so I think there's a strong parallel there between yourself and myself. So this leads us very neatly into my next question, which is how do you assist people In what you're doing now? What would you say is the way do you assist people in what you're doing now? What would you say is the way that you assist people?
Winnie Sung:Basically, in this active aging business that I'm building, there are actually various what I would call kind of these core pillars that I have in mind. So it's three pillars. First one is what I call cross-generational learning, which is all about and it's actually, in fact, the pillar I'm focusing on at the moment, because I'm still on my own right now building so and this is where the coaching also. I'll talk about the coaching, which is what I'm currently doing, but it's actually fits under this cross-generational learning pillar that I'm thinking about, because what I see as we age right is that I see a lot of age segregation in our population. I mean, it starts from a young age, when you go through education, right, like you're all age segregated and that continues into work and on and on and on, and so I feel like and also now with family setups and how people live, a lot of people don't live right with their parents, grandparents, right, so we actually have less access than we used to on that front. So creating those opportunities for cross-generational learning, et cetera, to me would be such an important thing to almost bring back, and creating those opportunities for people to actually get that exchange on both sides. It's both ways. The older generation can learn and get energized from the younger generation and their ideas, while the younger generation can certainly benefit from the wisdom of the older generation as well, and so I really want to create those opportunities and channels for that to happen. So that's like one pillar.
Winnie Sung:The other pillar is around independent living, which is on active aging, is that there's a lot of feeling from people that, oh, you know, as you get old, right, you'll lose independence because you need people to take care of you and this all you'll probably end up in a senior's home, all these kinds of things. But it's really not true anymore. Maybe that used to be the case, but actually, even statistically, very few percentage of the population end up in seniors' homes, but the fact is most people actually are living healthier than ever before. There are all the means and tools available now, but, in terms of independent living, products and services that are now available to allow people to actually age very comfortably at home are available. So it's about setting that up for people and actually, just, yeah, making people aware of these and making that available to people. So that's another pillar that I think that, from an active aging perspective, is very important to create those for people and making it available to people.
Winnie Sung:And then the third pillar is around holistic well-being. I think that that one is definitely very centered on health right Increasing health span rather than just lifespan right but also really around preventative type of health care rather than what most of society is focused on, which is more like sick care, which you just do something when something is not well or something is hurting or you're sick and all that kind of thing, and also about mentally right. That it's this holistic consideration around health and well-being and not just singularly focused on like sort of physical well-being. So those are kind of the core pillars for the whole business that I'm envisioning. So it's kind of like almost like an ecosystem of sorts.
Winnie Sung:Currently, though, as I mentioned because I'm just myself I'm focusing on transformation coaching at the moment, which is centered on helping midlife professionals and leaders find meaning and clarity so that they can create an exciting next stage of life for themselves. So that's really the focus, and how I do that is through different coaching offerings that I have. So three main ones I'll just mention quickly. It ranges from guiding them to find and live their why right, their life purpose.
Winnie Sung:It's also about building more mental resilience, and the system I use is positive intelligence, of course, like with certain other tools as well, but the main operating system is the positive intelligence system and also, in terms of career, helping people manage that midlife career transition that I actually also see more and more people going through right. We've talked about how each of us actually also went through different career transitions during our career and I actually do see more and more people wanting that but actually having trouble and not really knowing how to go about it in a way that doesn't overwhelm them or then doesn't lead them to feel like there's like a huge kind of setback or sacrifice that they have to make to do that successfully. So that's another topic that I'm currently also helping people on. So that's kind of like the main topics I'm focusing on at the moment.
Vincent Hiscox:Yeah. So if I summarize that from a big picture, then it's all about active aging, so that's the kind of sat on top, and then the cross-generational learning and the coaching, independent living and holistic well-being, and then digging into the detail of that. Then we come to the you know, transformation and working towards the next phase of people who are sort of I would guess and I've spoken to you before, so I've got a good idea is that it's the kind of midlife kind of crisis that people talk about. I mean, I don't like to label it as a midlife, I don't like that word crisis, because it's sort of it's too negative for me, but it's midlife choices.
Vincent Hiscox:You know, where do I want to? Where do I want to go? Where do I see myself in the next five years, next 10 years? What is it that's important for me now that maybe wasn't important for me when I was 21 or even when I was 30 or when I was 40? So finding out and it comes back again to your find out your why. You need to know why you want to be doing what you're doing, but also that you have as a possibility the capability to change and even change quite dramatically if you want to. That opportunity is there and it's independent of age, I would say.
Vincent Hiscox:I'm talking from my own point of view now, yeah, Definitely yeah.
Winnie Sung:So I definitely agree and I love that you brought up that you don't like the word crisis, so I use it because that's what most of society calls it right. Midlife crisis Most people anybody I've talked to will say, oh yeah, I've heard of that right. Whether or not they feel they've gone through one or are going through one or expect to go through one right, everyone will be familiar with that term. But when I have the conversation with people to me I will always then say not anymore, because that term was actually coined in the 60s when I think that there was a certain uniformity of experience that a lot of people are going through like a certain period of life where there are certain transitions happening. Let's say, a lot of people experience similar things. But now society is so people have such varied experiences.
Winnie Sung:So even now, when I talk to people, well, you say you're in a midlife crisis, tell me what's happening to you. Basically, you get the full rainbow right of struggles that people are going through, and I don't think I've met any two people with the exact same struggles who all identify as I'm having a midlife crisis, and I agree. I don't like calling it a crisis either. Actually, I always call it. Well, it's not a crisis, it's actually a midlife calling. I've also heard of people saying it's a midlife chrysalis right, that kind of butterfly, that kind of right. So it's actually that. It really is kind of this transition phase in our lives where I think, as you mentioned right, these things that maybe we weren't thinking or feeling previously are starting to surface, and then we're kind of in this kind of transition where we start thinking about these topics and things.
Vincent Hiscox:Yeah, and I think what would be interesting from the listener's point of view now is maybe I'm sure you've got lots of stories of people that you've worked with. You know how they came to you, how they presented what you did and what was the outcome, and it's always nice to share those stories.
Winnie Sung:Yeah, so since we were talking about midlife crisis, so let's let me just take that one example. So there's this lady. I did a midlife crisis survey online to try to get a sense of you know, what do people think on this topic and what are their struggles and how do they want that resolved? Right, like what is the outcome that they're looking for? So I was doing a survey. So there was this lady that basically did my survey and then we kind of became engaged that way. So she ended up actually enrolling in my 12-week what I call from midlife crisis to calling Finding and Living your why program.
Winnie Sung:Basically, what motivated her to enroll in the end is that she had various traumas growing up. She felt like she already did a lot of healing around that right, like going to therapy and all these kinds of things. But yet she was like well, I've done a lot of healing, so I thought I was good, but then I've suddenly hit this point where I'm like I'm struggling to find meaning in life. What is this all about? Why am I even here, right? So this is why. And then she wasn't happy with her work and she was struggling and thinking what's my next step, or is this it she was because she was at that age, she was in her 40s, she was divorced, and so she was a little bit like yeah, am I running out of time? Is it too late to find something that feels more fulfilling to me? I don't even know what that could be, but yeah, like. So she was just struggling with all of that. So then when she heard about and we started interacting and talking about this, like why and why you would want to look for that and what that can bring you, she goes that sounds really interesting. So she goes yes, I think I want to try that.
Winnie Sung:So we started working together and basically through that 12 weeks, there were moments of, first of all, I think, for herself, recognizing that she thought she was okay with aging, but it turned out that no, actually there were certain mindsets around what that was that she wasn't even aware that she was feeling. So then she started going, especially, for example, that feeling of am I running out of time? So then I'm like well, do you have some chronic illness or some terminal illness that I should know about? You know that you're saying I'm running out of time, like my time's up, she'll go. Well, no, do you happen to know when you're going to die, like you know that kind of thing, and she'll go well, no, and I'm like, oh, ok, so you know you're in your 40s. So actually, of course none of us know right when that's going to be.
Winnie Sung:But if we look at life expectancy and women, too, right, she's in Hong Kong. So then I said, well, life expectancy of women is more like, you know, 80. So, or 80s in Hong Kong. So then I said, well, actually you probably still got another four years to go. That's quite a bit of time, right. And then she goes oh, yeah, you're right, yeah, but right, I'm going to have to retire, right and all of this, and so I'm still going to run out of time.
Winnie Sung:So then, but then actually she started realizing through, like working on that whole coaching conversation, right, that there were all these assumptions she was making that related to her own perceptions of what getting older meant in terms of losing value as a person or how society thinks right, you're somehow becoming irrelevant, and all of that kind of thing. That then she realized, no, you're right, like no, this is silly. Right Like what? No, I know, I have so much to give and I'm getting smarter, but definitely I feel like there's more and more wisdom right that I can offer and there's all these things that I can still do. So then that helped her to get actually even excited about the oh you know, actually there's all this stuff we can do.
Winnie Sung:And then she had that particular struggle around career. So then she was kind of like, yeah, I don't feel appreciated at work, so, and then we found her why, which allowed her to even understand why am I even doing the work I'm doing right? And then it made her realize actually even the job that she was doing wasn't exactly aligned with that. So then she started going okay, well then, what do? It wasn't like she had to change careers, but she had to take a certain pivot in terms of a focus she was giving, because she was really grinding herself down at work, because she didn't feel appreciated and but she was trying to work too hard and but then she would realize she was stressing about the wrong stuff. Basically that actually didn't matter to her. And so by finding her why, she was able to start finding directions in which to drive her existing work but to actually look for new jobs.
Winnie Sung:Actually in my career, six months later she actually got a new job doing exactly the kind of thing that is like fulfilling her why, which was much more strategic type job. She was much more involved in this kind of like driving sales and all these kind of things. But then she got into this position where she was really like doing much more strategy, like working with a CEO and all of that. And she was like, oh my God, I feel amazing and like every day, like all these ideas and this is what I want to do, and I can't believe, right, how much time I was wasting before doing things that actually she did not feel fulfilled in. But then she was like, yeah, literally driving herself mad and stressed out over right. So then she found this new direction and then she was like, yes, and now like I can continue to move forward and continue to do all the different things that she wanted to do, also with other aspects of her life.
Winnie Sung:So, because there's so many things in our lives and so that whole process is also about saying, remember, I talked about holistic well-being, right, it's not just about one thing, so that with the why, like she was actually able to, but you can't work on everything all at once. So then she was like okay, then I choose career first because I feel like that's what I want to focus on. So now that she's done that, so now she's like okay, now I focus on other things. I mentioned she was divorced, so then she also started thinking about okay, yeah, what is actually the kind of relationship that I do want going forward? Do I even want a relationship? She was kind of just doing casual dating after, but she said nothing lasted, because actually she didn't even know what she wanted. So then that was sort of the next thing now that she's sort of working on and so, yeah, that's sort of one example, I think.
Vincent Hiscox:Yeah, I mean, thank you so much for sharing that example and I think there were so many things inside of what you said there. But I mean, if I just take a step backwards and summarize on that, so it's a middle-aged lady we come back to this term. It was a kind of almost a midlife crisis she was having. Let's say, she was questioning where she was going and what she was doing, and by working with you just for a short time, I think you said did you say 10 weeks, 12 weeks, 12 weeks? So working with you just for a short time? I think you said did you say 10 weeks, 12 weeks, 12 weeks? So working with you for 12 weeks, with you asking the right questions.
Vincent Hiscox:But in the end, it's your client that makes the decisions. You're there as the coach, you're there as the mentor, you're there as somebody with the knowledge and you work alongside them. You never tell them and I'm surmising from what you said you never tell them you need to go here or you need to go here, but you can say, hmm, yeah, if that's somewhere you would like to go, this is maybe what you need to do. So you almost you're a guide. You're not somebody that says do this, do this, do this.
Vincent Hiscox:You're there just as somebody to say, oh, given what you're telling me, maybe you might want to try X or Y or Z, and you know that turned out for that particular lady that you spoke about, it turned out so positively. So that, yeah, absolutely fabulous story, yeah, great. And I think, from a listener's point of view, that gives the listeners a kind of a flavor of what you do and how you help people. So my next question after that would be looking again from the listener's point of view, what would be your advice to people who are listening about what they can do to help themselves?
Winnie Sung:I think that in so many conversations right that I have with clients, with people around me because I'm always talking about this One of the things that I think people really need to start doing is becoming more aware of their own relationship with aging right, how they actually see it, because I think that a lot of it is very unconscious. So it really starts with first understanding, not hiding from it, right or not just like I don't. Because actually when you I always start with like something with someone says, oh no, aging doesn't bother me, then I usually my next question is the well, when I say the word old, just tell me what comes up in your mind. Just, you know words Like just don't think so much, just tell me. Right, and honestly, I would say eight, nine times out of ten the words that come out are negative rather than positive, motivating, empowering, and that's just very normal, because that is society's narrative around aging and what all that means. So unless you really have someone who's really intentionally thought about this or have somehow lived a life where they really have just ended up at an old age and just feeling super energized and positive, the general image or narrative that society paints for us is more of a tending to be negative picture on all aspects. So that's why I usually say the starting point for everyone is to actually start getting curious about how they actually view aging themselves. So, by being intentionally focused on it, right, like just notice, start noticing.
Winnie Sung:When you see an old person, right, and they're crippling along, what is your reaction to that? Is it one of the yeah, yeah, that's what it's like when you age? Or do you really think, oh, I wonder what's wrong with this person, right? How did they become this way? Because I think the normal reaction is, yeah, yeah, that's what it's like to be old, but it's not true, right? And that's what I always also get people to say First, first notice. What is it that you do feel about it and be honest about it. There's no sense in lying to yourself but then to then find counter examples, almost right.
Winnie Sung:So I say society has us focusing on all the negative aspects of aging. So then what I tend to do is I say I look for evidence of the opposite. I look for evidence of the positive aspects of aging, because there are actually many, right? It's just that we're not really trained to look for it and we tend to just listen to all the bad stuff. So, while you notice all of that, then look for those examples of aging, right?
Winnie Sung:I feel like I'm sitting across from one example right now, right, which is such a positive example of someone who's older, right, but still being very active and doing a lot of things right, and continuing to learn and all of these kinds of things, right, where then you see, right, but we tend to see these small examples of it and we say, oh, but that's just one person, right? Rather than saying that's my role model, right, that's what I want to be like. And then you'll say, yeah, but everybody else tend to be right. So I always say let's not just focus on the negative, focus on the positive. So that for sure would be to me the first thing Just reframing our own becoming more aware and then reframing our own relationship with aging by starting to notice, right, the positive aspects of aging as well.
Vincent Hiscox:Yeah, super, super advice and I'll come back to you, for you know, talking about from myself, then I don't think I'm getting old. I mean, sorry, I'll reframe that, I'll reframe that response. I notice, for sure. I notice when I go training I'll notice that sometimes I can run out of energy earlier some days than other days and I think, okay, so that's, you know. There's most probably a reason for that is that you know you're not 21 anymore, you know you're not the same person that can sort of turn up in front of a marathon course and run the marathon without even thinking about it.
Vincent Hiscox:But I don't look at that as a negative thing. I mean, I look at it more as a positive thing in that I still feel that I'm capable of doing the things which are important for me. And that would be my definition of positive aging is that I want to be able to do the things that I want to do In the winter. If I want to go snowboarding, I can go snowboarding. If I want to go swimming in the sea, I can go swimming in the sea. If I want to go running around the running track a few times a week, I can go running around the running track a few times a week.
Vincent Hiscox:I think there has to be an acceptance that you're not the person you were when you were 21. From a recovery point of view, you need to be more careful. Also, I would say you need to be more careful about what you eat. You need to be more careful about your sleep habits All of the things that make a healthy person that last for their whole life. You have to think about them equally, whatever age you are. I will put it that way.
Winnie Sung:Absolutely, yeah, but just like a 21-year-old also is not the five-year-old, right? I mean, actually, if you think about it, we evolve throughout our lives. It's not only when you get old that suddenly, right, all of this stuff happens, right, it's when you're a child and you're capable of maybe learning languages faster, doing all of that by the time you're in your 20s and older, there are also things you don't do as well anymore, but then you develop other strengths and I actually fundamentally believe and the studies and all the data you see pan this out as well right that later in life, right, you're also better at certain things than when you were 21. So why are we not focusing on those right? And, like you say, it's not that there are no limitations, but we have that throughout our lives. It's not something exclusive to old age, it's just that we evolve.
Winnie Sung:And then it's about recognizing for ourselves what are those changes right that are happening, and then, yeah, how to maintain that health span for ourselves that, yeah, I mean, this is also a machine of good kind, right, our body, so it does need maintaining. This is not just like, oh, yeah, no, no need to pay attention to it, just let it be right, I mean it runs for this long right, but your cells are constantly regenerating all of that right. I mean it runs for this long right, but your cells are constantly regenerating all of that right. So we can upkeep and maintain and maintain a much healthier body than, I suppose, even what we even used to know 10, 20 years ago, right, like we know so much more now and there's so many more things that we are aware of that we can do. But yeah, I think a lot of times I hear people going, yes, I know all of that, I just can't make myself do it, and so then this is where, a lot of times, the mental aspects come into it.
Vincent Hiscox:Yeah, talking about the mental aspect and just coming back again, as you were talking, I was just thinking for myself. If I remember my granddad, for example, and my granddad fought in the First World War. He was a young man at the time of the First World War. Then, you know, all his life he spent working in steelworks. What I remember about him, he died when I was 18 and he suffered a stroke and then later on then, you know, the stroke actually impaired him from moving, so he stopped moving so much and then later on he just got iller and he died and that, okay, is two generations. From where I am now, and you know, I can see that. You know, for his generation he was doing everything that was the correct thing for that generation. He went off to fight in the war. You know, he worked hard in the steelworks, he raised a family and he did the best that he could do at that particular time.
Vincent Hiscox:Now things have moved on and maybe we understand a bit more and we've got much more opportunity, then my feeling is that personally I have to be for myself somebody that sort of listens to what is, you know, the information that's available, what is there that tells me what I should be doing, what I shouldn't be doing, and to follow that. So eat healthy food, you know, do exercise, make sure that your mental health is well looked after, and after that what can you do? I mean, after that is pure chance. You know, if tomorrow somebody finds out I've got a cancer of whatever the liver or something, okay, that can be bad luck and everybody can have bad luck. But you shouldn't say, well, because I might have bad luck and no need to do anything. You know that might turn up anyway. Yes, so no need for me to do anything.
Vincent Hiscox:Where I take it from the other point of view that you know work on your health as something that's important, but also be aware that in anything in life, in any outcome in life, there are two things there's skill and then there's luck. You know we don't have control over luck. You know I might step in front of a car because I'm being absent-minded and I might get knocked down by a car. That might happen tomorrow. But the other side of that you shouldn't say, oh, because I might be knocked down by a car tomorrow, I'm not going to pay any attention to my health because that could happen tomorrow, which I think is completely the wrong way to think about it, and everything that you've been sharing, I would say, goes in the same direction as what I feel is my philosophy and my way of thinking, not just about my own health, but also about my client's health.
Vincent Hiscox:So, yeah, yeah, for sure I thank you, and I think you know from the podcast. I think the listeners have got a really good understanding now of the kind of work that you do, how you help people. So what I'd ask you to do now is really, if you could give to the listeners, what would be your key message? So you're talking to the listeners now, what would be your key message?
Winnie Sung:So you're talking to the listeners now, what would be your key message to them? I think my key message is that I really want to emphasise that the second half of our lives should be the best part of our lives. There's almost this kind of youth obsession in our society, so it always again, the predominant view seems to be that if you don't make it while you're young and have all your successes, then somehow you know, everything is just downhill. And I feel that, like my own midlife realization was the exact opposite. Was that, wow, no, now things are really starting to open up and I have so much more, so many things that I could still do with my life. So I really want to emphasize that the second half of life should be the best part of our lives, and if anyone has any doubts about that, right, then I think that that only tells me that there's room for them to work on reframing their relationship with aging and then taking small steps to actually build the kind of mindset that would set them up for success. And in there I will just quickly mention right about staying open and curious, which sounds like you know what a child is, right, very curious, but I do believe that that can last the whole lifetime and it's a key to, I think, unlocking those kind of new opportunities and possibilities for people as we age and also developing this kind of growth mindset, which is that there's always an opportunity to learn. Right, it's not about failure and all of these, but more about what you can learn and then how you can sort of grow from it Something kind of more tangible.
Winnie Sung:So if you ever catch yourself saying I'm too old for that, then challenge that narrative for yourself, right, don't just accept and say, yeah, I'm too old for that. Don't let that become the excuse. And there may be certainly physical or other limitations, but if you just remain open to the possibility, right, and always just willing to try something right, then my experience, what I've seen time and time again, right, there's always something you can do, even if it's just one small step a day. Right, and those small things add up over time. Find a way is really the message. It should be the best part of your life. Find a way Right, and I think what I will leave the listeners with as well is just to kickstart that whole journey Right. Ask yourselves what if I'm not just growing old, but I am growing whole?
Vincent Hiscox:Great. What if I'm not growing old? What if I'm growing whole? So what I got from that was that you know the second half of your life is the best. Small steps are always the best. It's one of my. I do that one all the time, I teach that one or I advise that one. Be open and curious, have a growth mindset and challenge yourself. Challenge yourself and finally find a way. So absolutely glorious. I thank you so much for the podcast and being on the podcast, winnie. And the very important question now how do people get in touch with you?
Winnie Sung:So I have a website, so I guess I'll give you the website after you could post it. You can also reach me on Instagram. I'm on Facebook as well, but I think mostly Instagram, now LinkedIn as well for those professionals that may be interested. But yeah, those are all the ways.
Vincent Hiscox:Great. So I'll get the details from you when we finish the podcast and we put those into the show notes. So I'd like to say thank you so much for doing the podcast with us today and, yeah, I've really enjoyed it. I've learned so much from you and, yeah, I wish you all the best in the future.
Winnie Sung:Thank you so much, Vincent.
Vincent Hiscox:Thank you, great podcast with Winnie, really enjoyed it. And here are my takeaways. Number one be aware of your own relationship to aging. Number two challenge the narrative I'm too old for that. Number three not a midlife crisis, more a midlife calling with midlife choices. Number four be curious how you'll be ageing. Look for evidence of the positive aspects of ageing. Number five remain open to possibilities. Find a way. And questions at vincenthiscox at outlookcom. Would you enjoy getting a short weekly email from me where I share simple tips that you can put into practice to improve your health? Subscribe to Vincent's Wellness Newsletter at vincent1cdsubstackcom. If you are looking to get into the best shape of your life, to look and feel your best, visit my coaching website, procoachapp. Forward slash vincent-hiscox. All of the references to the websites will be in the show notes, and don't forget to share the episode with a friend.